hifi.slovanet.sk

MSW

Raal se zdá být jednou z nejpokročilejších technologií páskových výškových měničů. Superčistá odezva v celém výškovém pásmu a na poměry pásků vynikající odezva na vyšších středech. http://www.raalribbon.com/news.htm

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100392&perpage=10&pagenumber=82

Najde se někdo pro společnou objednávku (v horizontu několika měsíců)?

MSW

Trocha sebechvály neuškodí:
"Interesting thing is that not one pair of loudspeakers changed hands. If the customer wanted something to be improved, it was always the RAAL’s upgrade to a bigger ribbon driver, but not the new loudspeaker of another brand".

coffee

MSW

Tady není co řešit. Těžko najdeš objektivně lepší. Pokud se jim podaří postupně snižovat spodní omezení bez velkých závad, budou jedničky.

coffee

coffee

MSW

Nikdy není nic dokonalé. Naštěstí to jsou stále dobrá čísla.

MSW

Raal prý doporučuje středobasy od PHL.

coffee

Rob

grafy toho 140-15D vypadají dobře, ale u toho zkreslení jsou čísla tak malá, že vůbec není poznat, na jaké úrovni je signál a kolik dB je jeden dílek

co říkáte na ribbony od Raven nebo třeba Aurum Cantus. Mě lákají Aurum Cantus G3 co jsou taky v repro Evolution Acoustics MM3:

http://www.aurumcantus.com/aurumcantus-tweeter/aluminum%20ribbon%20tweeter%20G3.htm

ty bedny jsou mimochodem za 38.000 dolaru velmi levne

coffee

Hogy · Hifi obsluha Založený: 27 január 2007 Príspevky: 46

Kdysi jsem o PHL uvazoval na jeden projekt. Nejake ty mensi stredobasy, ale presne oznaceni uz nevim. Kazdopadne se mi nekde podarilo vypatrat impedancni char. a Himalaje hadr...

MSW

Aurum Cantus jsou dobré. Ceny ok. Mi se líbí Raal, cena kolem 10 000,- za kus. Opravdu těžko říct, jestli zvětšení pásku (a ceny) na něco jako Raven nebo Alian je ta správná cesta. Myslím si že ne. Na druhou stranu Apogee prý hrajou.

MSW

Vlastně i Raven doporučuje PHL.
http://www.akkus.com.pl/index.php?grupa=wg_firm&firma=phl&lang=pl&dh=dt

MSW

Lynn Olson:
"No, I see the addition of a new driver as levelling the playing field between compression drivers and the new class of prosound ribbons. There's the Stage Accompany, and now the RAAL joins the field with what looks to me like a higher level of performance. Plus, we have contributors to this thread who have actually auditioned the SA vs the 1-high version of the RAAL, and preferred the RAAL.

I had quite an interesting conversation with Aleksandar of RAAL, and we compared our subjective impressions of horn, ribbon, and cone driver sound. We were comparing our impressions of the dynamic character of each technology - ordinary 87~92 dB direct-radiators start to noticeably compress around 90~95 dB, sound pretty flattened-out at 100 dB, and at levels below 60~70 dB, multiway systems become murky and confused-sounding.

Aleksandar mentioned that audiophile dome tweeters, as a group, have quite different impulse and CSD responses -60 dB below the usual test levels. The rise times slow down, and drivers parameters change. This failure of the drivers in a multiway system to track dynamically - over a wide range - is why complex audiophile systems sound disjointed and muffled at low levels (background music).

I mentioned that horns, in my experience, exaggerate dynamics, sometimes just a little bit, and sometimes very obviously, when they get into a high-order distortion regime with a compression driver approaches its limits. Aleksandar mentioned that the same thing happens at low levels - there's a dynamic-expansion effect that makes quiet sounds even quieter - and this is quite a different effect than the parameter change and "murk" of auidiophile-efficiency direct-radiators at low (microwatt) levels.

The big issue with ribbons, of course, is limited linear travel in the magnetic gap, along with the possibility of ribbon destruction - or stretching - due to over-excursion from excess power. Much of Aleksandar's work has been focussed on addressing high SPL's without the usual compromise of constraining the motion of the aluminum ribbon by gluing it to stretched plastic film, which substantially degrades impulse response and distortion. The issue with all of these technologies - horn, direct-radiator, ribbons, etc. - is retaining dynamically consistent performance at microwatt and 100+ dB levels".

MSW

Tohle je zajímavá teorie:
"Aleksandar at RAAL had similar experiences with his experimental horn-loaded ribbons - the horns sounded really good, but not the same as the open ribbons, with the most of the difference being a different sense of perspective on the music. That was my take on the electrostat-horn as well - the difference between transported to the musicians, versus the musicians being in the room. Much of this is due to polar-pattern differences illuminating the local environment, but I also suspect the ear is directly sensitive to the shape of the wavefront itself. I suspect a highly curved spherical wavefront is interpreted as coming from a location nearby the listener, and as the listener moves further off-axis, the smooth curvature becomes more disrupted".

coffee

MSW

Coffee
zase to bereš jen z pohledu fyziky měničů, to souhlasím, ale zase do toho může nějak vstoupit fyziologie slyšení

coffee

MSW

pořád mi vrtá hlavou, jakto, že mu vyšel pokles zkreslení možná víc než 20dB, ale jen druhá harmonická
http://www.zaphaudio.com/hornconversion.html

coffee

MSW

Coffee
já rozumím jak to udělal, ale stejně ten rozdíl je dost překvapivě velký a nakonec to nepovažuje za skutečný přínos v případě pasivu

coffee

MSW

Tohle je odpověď výrobce RAAL na otázku ohledně optimálního středobasu:

"I don't like Accuton for the same reason I don't like SEAS with metal cone. Very pronounced peak which lets the 3rd order distortion from 1.5k, ride on it, for a very long time after the signal stops.

PHL has a very lively sound, that doesn't suffer from "hidden" distortion generating mechanisms, especially in time domain. The response is not ideal (depending on the model) but with a good choice of crossover frequency and slight adjustments in the passive crossover, this can be
corrected. Not to mention DSP crossovers that can correct the response very easily, but in the end, it's better to do that than to use a speaker with a little better response, but sounding slow or dull. That fault can not be corrected.

The best performance so far, from any cone midrange speaker,
I've had with PHL 1120. ScanSpeak 18W8531G00 is very good too, but less exciting. After all, it is 50 % heavier than PHL 1220 and 100% heavier than PHL 1120, with much less Force Factor compared to PHL. I like ScanSpeak anyway, but I prefer to use PHL if the project goal will allow its usage."

Aleksandar Radisavljevic

coffee

velky bobo

U RAALů je zajímavá jakási zvláštní balkánská aritmetika - 13000 G = 0,51 T.

richard_majer

coffe... 5-6 palec do 2,5k? Neni to trochu moc?

Frantrax

V pohodě...

richard_majer

ja vim ze jo, taky bych se toho nebal, ale kdyz se tady resi takovy "material", tak by to teoreticky melo byt nekde kolem 1,3-1,5kHz, pokud si vykladam teorie co jsem nastudoval spravne.

MSW

2kHz 18dB