hifi.slovanet.sk

[dhfool]

Ale ty jsi nepsal o SR .

[britishaudio]

[britishaudio]

dnes som volal do výroby, prvé kusy budú k dispozícii len druhý týždeň v decembri (prvú zásielku dostaneme spolu s nemcami, je zbytočné vycestovať skôr kvôli nákupu). Objednávky evidujeme už teraz (stačí emailom) a vybavené budú podľa dátumu odoslania. Cena je 1,199.- Euro s DPH.

[Hasňa]

Pekne, skoda toho maleho displaye, ale s tim se da zit. Ma to trigger na zapinani koncoveho zesilovace?

[britishaudio]

žiaľ nemá. tie 2 3,5mm vstupy/výstupy slúžia na infračervené ovládania, aspoň na verzii 1 ktorú som videl...

[Hasňa]

Ani CDQ? Tohle je CD.

[britishaudio]

nie...

8200CDQ fully balanced upsampling CD Player 32bit /192kHZ USB port, 2xCoaxial IN, 2 x Optical IN, 1xOptical & Coaxial OUT, NEUTRIK 1 pair high quality XLR and RCA outputs, 3 line inputs Class A biased Internal Preamplifier.

[Hasňa]

Do haje. Tak to by byl zasadni problem.

[britishaudio]

[britishaudio]

• 32-bit/84.672MHz oversampled/upsampled, 512 element, multibit array DAC (four DACs per channel)
• 1920x oversampling with 44.1kHz source from CD/USB
• Asychronous USB supporting 24-bit/96kHz with driverless remote control of PC/Mac media player (via HID support)
• 2x 24-bit/192kHz coaxial S/PDIF digital inputs
• 2x 96kHz optical digital inputs
• 3x 2Vrms analogue line-level inputs
• Low jitter optical and coxial S/PDIF outputs
• Selectable analogue or digital preamplifier mode
• High-current, single-ended and balanced, discreet Class A output stage
• High-performance, direct-coupled, discrete Class A headphone amplifier
• Custom CD servo design – with ultra-low-noise PSU for OPU
• Full remote control and external remote I/O loop
• 34 regulated power supply rails
• 14 ultra-low-noise discrete regulators
• User-selectable digital filter settings – software upggradeable via USB port
• Master clock jitter less than 3psec short term
• Top-quality component parts used throughout, including: ultra-low-ESR capacitors; high-tolerance polypropylene film/foil capacitors; ultra-stable, very-low-VCR 0.1% MELF SMD resisitors; four-layer PCB

[Slimak]

[britishaudio]

sorry, nenašiel som nikde. Ale našiel som fotku PCB


ďalšie info:

"which chip?
We're using TAS1020B controller which is an 8051 MCU core coupled with Full Speed USB 2.0 compliant device, I2S interface and programmable PLL clock generator. It forms an integral part of the product - we use it for general housekeeping on the main board, not just for USB Audio duties. We chose this chip because it's relatively inexpensive and has all the necessary bits in place.

what software?
The chip is general purpose and without software it would be just sitting there doing nothing (OK, waiting for firmware upload to be precise). The firmware is my own work and implements Asynchronous Isochronous streaming of up to 24b/96k in accordance with USB Audio Class v1.0 specification which is supported by all major operating systems out-of-the-box. That means we're plug'n'play - no need to install any drivers.

why only 24/96?
This is limited by the 12Mbps Full-Speed USB where the maximum amount of data transfered in isochronous mode is 1023B per USB frame which lasts 1ms. That means maximum 1023000B/s. 24/96 data requires 576000B/s. If we look at the next step which would be 24/176.4 it is already more (by a fraction) than we can handle with 1058400B/s - that's why anything above 24/96 is a no-go for 12Mbps Full Speed USB and requires the 480Mbps High Speed USB.
However High Speed USB is a 'bag of hurt', to borrow Steve J's words. First of all, his operating system is the only one supporting USB Audio 2.0 out-of-the-box. Windows boxes require installing driver. The other problem is finding a suitable chip. Inevitably any such solution will end up costing significantly more and won't be as convenient for majority of customers (still on Windows).
There is absolutely no need for Super Speed USB 3.0 for audio purposes whatsoever - High Speed USB 2.0 can easily handle at least 8 times the traffic for isochronous pipe (High Speed USB has microframe lasting 125us) - good enough for 10ch at 32b/192k!

architecture?
The master clock in our product is a discrete low phase noise oscillator of our own design running at 84.672MHz (1920fs at 44.1) and it sits right at the DAC. We are dividing down from this clock to feed both the CD servo and USB chip. USB also requires a 12MHz related clock for the bus transceiver which is a frequency unrelated to audio clock, therefore we run a PLL to derive the USB bus clock from our audio clock. When streaming at 44.1k or 88.2k the USB interface is 'Clock Locked' to the DAC in exactly the same way the CD transport is. There is no ASRC going on, everything is fully synchronous. When streaming at 48k or 96k we use a PLL to generate a fixed frequency for audio interface to which the computer is slaved. In this case we use the ASRC built into the DAC chip to bridge the two frequency domains (44.1/4. Since all clocks are derived from a single source - the DAC master clock - they track perfectly together and there is no low frequency deviation between them, so that the ASRC operating with low corner frequency finds an extremely stable ratio that does not drift.

benefit of asynchronous?
To anybody involved with audio engineering it must be absolutely clear. Asynchronous USB Audio is like a 'Clock Locked' CD transport and unlike an S/PDIF or Adaptive/Synchronous USB Audio. There is no perfect jitter rejection in this world and therefore the way to get the best results is not having to perform any! For that, the DAC has to be the one governing the rate of incoming data as opposed to having to adjust to it.

The Audiolab units have a couple nice extra features such as HID media control where you can skip tracks, play, pause etc. in your media player using the remote control. Another useful and unique feature is a real-time display of not only sampling rate but also actual bit depth of the audio stream. When you're playing lossless CD the display should read 16bit/44.1k - if it doesn't, you instantly know you're not bit perfect and should do something about it - see manual. Play an HDCD with a proper decoder in foobar and you'll see 17bit/44.1k. Use DirectSound through the infamous kmixer.sys and you'll see 24bit/44.1k as there's a low level dither applied on the way through kmixer."

[Hasňa]

No je to mozna drobnost, ale BVa konec ma spinac vzadu. Proste je to pohoda. Zadne satrani vzadu. Mam to v uzke polici, takze tam tu ruku ani neprostrcim. Ma to standby rezim? Nebo jenom vypnuto/zapnuto hlavnim spinacem? Proste jsem si zvykl na ovladaci komfort P1SE.

[britishaudio]

preštudoval som fotky zadných panelov celej série 8200 a všade sú vstupy/výstupy TRIGGER (3,5mm jack). 8200 CDQ tiež má 2 ks 3,5mm (pravdepodobne) jack ale s nápisom IR. Nakoľko popis IR nie je na ostatnych komponentoch série 8200, predpokladám (bolo by to super) že fotka, na ktorej je vyfotený CDQ je nejaký pre-factory model (možno chceli pôvodne distribuovať do komponentov signál z IČ ovládača). no neviem...nemám žiaľ viac info. Okamžite, ak sa dostanem k užívatelskemu manuálu alebo servis manuálu, pridám sem nový komment. Dovtedy platí to, že CDQ budú k dispozícii od decembra. Naša objednávka na monobloky 8200MB dodnes nebola potvrdená. Modely 8200 TE, M a P budú len vo februári 2011.

[Hasňa]

JohnW na pinkfishmedia neco o triggeru mluvil, ze by to tam rad videl, ale jestli to dopadlo a povedlo se mu to realizovat uz nepsal. No, uvidime, az vam to dojde na prodejnu. Pak tyhle uzivatelske dataily muzeme probrat.

[Hasňa]

Quote Dominik: "..8200DQ will include dual 12V trigger. It was unfortunately too late for CDQ to include it, we might do it as a running change sometimes down the line..."

"..The two 3.5mm jacks are for IR loop though. As I said, we'll probably add the trigger down the line as we do on DQ from the beginning..."

Takze mi nezbyde, nez cekat. No trigger, no fun.

[opa]

[Hasňa]

Hloupost? No, CDQ neni cisty prehravac, je to CD a PRE combo. Nyni mi konec zapina predzesilovac, hlavni spinac konce je na zadni strane. Zapinam vse univerzalnim dalkacem na jeden stisk (bud cd poslech sestavu, nebo tv sestavu, nebo dvd sestavu prednastavenymi makry v ovladaci), vse zustava ve standby rezimu, kdyz to vypnu, opet jednim stiskem. Nechci to menit, takhle mi to velmi vyhovuje. Komfort obsluhy mi hloupe nepripada. I kdyz asi neni poradni HiFi hard core.

[Hasňa]

Q:
Can I ask in what way has the CDQ been tweaked over the standard CD? Specifically parts used and the resulting change in sound?

A (JohnW):
x46 “General purpose” electrolytic capacitors used in the analogue section for PSU De-coupling have been changed to custom sourced Low ESR types.

x16 “General purpose” electrolytic capacitors changed to Ultra Low ESR Organic Capacitors

x7 Transistors within the discrete regulator stages around the DAC and Clock sections have been changed to SuperBeta types (Lower “Equivalent” RdsOn).

x8 4.7pF compensation capacitors (removed) one in each High Current Class A Buffer circuit to “rebalanced” the sound, after the above “PSU” modifications brought up the LF response to such a level that the sound became subjectively “Bass Heavy”.
The Compensation Caps. where originally added to compensate for a slight subjective “Lightness” to the sound quality, but in my opinion they also determinately effected the sound stage and resolution.

After all these years and experience I should have known better about the capacitors, there’s something like 250,000uF of bulk capacitance in the CDQ; I thought (and hoped) that any quality effects would be “swamped” by the absolute value of capacitance (come on, 250000uf is HUGE in anyones book) – not to mention the large open loop gain of “Discrete” multiple regulator stages.

Due to the much higher cost of Low ESR type Caps (such as Rubicon and Nippon Chemi-Con etc), we had to convince a “local source” to manufacture these for us, using the same quality materials as the “Japanese” brands, the materials are being purchase from the same venders as the premium Jap. brands – thus the small delay in shipping the CDQ. Due to the huge number of capacitors used, we could never have met the retail price if we used the Jap. parts.

Our “Custom” Low ESR caps. Have 10% to 20% lower ESR (Read better / Flatter ESR Performance) then the best of the Japanese equivalent – as we where able to relax other “non essential” parameters such as heating due to ripple current – we have very small ripple currents – these are NOT being used is HF SMPS designs.

These is one of the great advantages of being based in China, just pop in and meet vendors – and practically design your own custom components… Sadly, I feel sorry for companies still trying to manufacture outside of Asia… OTOH, my Family and I personally pay for this by not have any quality of life in China…

Unfortunately, due to the 4 layer PCB (unsoldering thru-hole parts), and the SMD transistors, it would be very difficult for a “DIYer” to update these parts themselves… Unleaded solder & and 4 layer PCB with massive copper Ground Planes makes rework hell!

Each change had similar sonic effects, opening up the sound stage, more detail, increased Bass definition… of course non of these updates have ANY measured effect – but they have a huge effect on audio quality – the CDQ just sounds INCREDIBLE!! (even if I say so)...

I’m very grateful that IAG agreed to hold-off the release of the CDQ – it’s a MUCH better design, and its older brother (8200CD) has just won the WHF product of the year! the CDQ is really so much better!

A z jineho soudku od stejneho autora:
The CDQ / DQ headphone amplifier is really very good quality, it’s a high current fully Class A Discrete FET design…
..the Headphone output is not just a “Marketing” afterthought. We have also added a “Headphone" level trim in software, so you don’t need to keep re-adjusting the headphone level when you insert the headphone jack.

[britishaudio]

WH recenzia

[mimoklepes]

pripravovany DAC 8200DQ by mal mat okrem 12V triggra aj otocny ovladac hlasitosti. prima.
foto prototypu

[Hasňa]

JohnW: Wow, moje první odpověď v češtině. (Wow my first Czech Posting)…

We’ll keep it in English, as I left Czech when I was 5 years old (although I’ve now returned to live in Czech when we can escape China) – so I still speak Czech like a 5 year old!! Ladys love it, they think its very sweat - great!!! (Joke)

Does not help me much these days when I’m talking with people in Czech – such as the bloody car mechanics when I asked them to change the thermostat on our car as it gets “sticky” when we first drive the car after being garaged for 3 months (we return to Czech every 3 months to fatten up and live a little to regather our sanity and whit’s) – so they changed the thermostat, unfortunately along with the whole front engine cover (a massive aluminum dia-casting), this is on a AMG Mercedes V12 engine (like 2000 Euros to change a 20 Euro part!!! well done, just rip everyone off, others would not know better) … Its OK, we don’t really need to eat – EVER AGAIN!!

I Love Czech… Really I do… (Rant over)

The CDQ / DQ headphone amplifier is really very good quality, it’s a high current fully Class A Discrete FET design…

If you really want the absolute HIGHEST headphone quality (only talking headphone output here), due to a design quark (you can blame me), the cheapest MDAC (not QDAC) will be the best!!! What can I say… We are talking in absolute terms here, for headphone users the CDQ/ DQ is going to be better then anything near there price (well expect for the cheaper MDAC!!!), the Headphone output is not just a “Marketing” afterthought. We have also added a “Headphone" level trim in software, so you don’t need to keep re-adjusting the headphone level when you insert the headphone jack.

Hasna:Thanks for the infos. Czech car mechanics are never ending line of troubles. Only way out is to find non-concern-bonded one, which is honest and stick with him. That is what I have done. I am happy now and I drive home to the Czech Republic once or twice a year from Norway, where I live now, to do the regular service. The difference in price, compared to the Norwegian ones, pays for the trip.
Anyway, the issue with the unattenuated cinch output is the use of the wireless headphones RM180. I use the BVaudio P1SE preamp, which has such an output. So I pick the headphones, press the mute on the preamp and I am running on baby friendly quiet mode. In case of CDQ I couldn't use even normal attenuated cinch outputs, while using the XLR's to connect to the power amp, because every time I would want to use the headphones, I would have to switch off the power amp hard way on the back panel to silence the speakers. Simply, the unattenuated output would be great. Dominic says the 12V trigger, which is also a necessity for my set-up, will come later, great, I'wait, but I have to think again about solving the headphones issue. I would love to buy the CDQ. It would simplify my chain, no separate preamp, I would greatly upgrade my CD/PRE qualities, and my whole HiFi set-up would have "Czechoslovakian roots".

I took the freedom and reposted Your answers here http://hifi.slovanet.sk/bb/viewtopic...=118768#118768 to keep the people at home informed. I hope You don't mind.

JohnW: Hi All,

I’m sorry I’ve dropped off the Radar recently – I had been asked not to post until we changed our status to “Trade”… id seen our participation in this forum as “keen HiFi enthusiast” rather then trying to promote our designs – I believe I have been very honest about our own designs – certainly I get flack from my colleagues for being so frank.

I can understand the administrators concern, so now we are “Trade” – I guess I dislike being referred to as “trade” due to the poor morels and the very high BS ratio of this industry sector (it really turns my stomach when I read some of the total BS from some manufacturers (and reviewers etc))… being labeled under the same hat feels uncomfortable – I would rather just be considered a genuine enthusiast – my (our) designs are really a labor of love, id certainly be working in a different sector if it where for financial gains alone – thankfully I’m not reliant on my income from my activities in designing Hi-Fi! For some totally crazy and demented reason it’s just my passion

I’m also totally dyslexic, so writing does not come as second nature to me by any stretch of imagination (or even transcribing thoughts into words)…

I’ve also been extremely busy this week, (hopefully) final version of MDAC mainboard PCB has been released, progressed well on the DQ, and Dominik and I have been trying to nail down the CDQ software so we can FINALLY start CDQ shipments.

Typically, just as we thought we had completed the CDQ software we opened a whole Pandora’s box of methods to squeeze extra performance out of the CDQ based upon earlier work we had developed with our own FPGA based solutions – once this box was opened, Dominik realised that we could also take these methods and implement them in a limited, but still worthwhile manor to the ESS Silicon. We have promised the software to production on Monday, leaving us with one day left to implement these solutions… (Too late to update the user’s guide). Last Night we where so totally exhausted from listening, we could no longer make any discussions (sorry Peter, I did read your post last night but I was really too exhausted to answer)… Despite throwing a spanner into the works at such a critical time, I’m very glad that Dominik realised we could implement these ideas into the ESS solution on the CDQ, because otherwise we would really have been hitting our head’s in frustration if we had realised AFTER the CDQ had been released – it’s a very worth while improvement (it’s a User selectable option – so you will be able to decide for yourselves).

I received a concerned Email from our UK sales team (who have been silently reading this thread) concerning the MDAC / QDAC delivery dates – it looks like first shipments will not arrive in the UK until sometime towards the end of Q2!! 2011, I’m sorry for this bad news – Ill do everything in my power to speed up the shipment dates, but we are already running flat-out with 8200CD, not to mention the already late 8200CDQ, and the DQ ASAP!

Alan,

Thanks for pacifying Peter’s concerns; you hit the nail on the head…

Hasna,

Norway you say – now that is THE most expensive country I’ve ever visited. Back in 93’ I friend of Pink Triangle recommended that we consider manufacturing our SMD products in Norway! For some reason at the time, we seriously considered the option, and I visited the factory one cold winter. On arriving to the hotel from the airport late one evening, the kitchen was already closed, so they kindly arrange to make a sandwich for me in the Hotel bar – 2 slices of bread with Ham & Egg + Coke, GBP3.5 pounds I thought, until I realised I was out by a factor of 10!!! GBP35 pounds for a Sandwich and Coke!!! – More then 15 years later and it still hurts!!!

Apart from the now legendary 35 Pound Sandwich and Coke, I was also amazed how attractive the ladies where in Norway, and that says a lot coming from Czech Rep. – it’s almost like by law all unattractive ladies are hidden at home, and only allowed out after the witching hour…

It’s a bit like Sweden, I have a sneaky suspicion the Czech Rep. benefited in a "genetical perspective" from the 30 year war with Sweden, as we have more then our far share of attractive ladies… That said, our house in Prague is within the walls of Prague Castle, and its exterior wall’s are still potted with Cannon Balls – One of the legacy problems with Cannon ball’s is that they rust badly, paint your walls (we are not allowed to paint the Cannon Balls themselves – as they keep the tourist happy), and a week later you have “Brown run marks” from the rusting Cannon Balls down you nice newly painted wall!

Now, you would not have this problem in China; you would just pull down any historical building, and construct a nice new modern concrete monstrosity in its place - let nothing get in the way of the march of progress!

Now I understand your headphone requirements, not much we can do with this design, but:-

We DON’T recommend using both the Balanced and RCA outputs at the sometime, on the CD, CDQ, DQ & MDAC etc, the Balanced and RCA are internally connected together (well at least the Positive signal is), this means that the Balanced Class A output stages are driving both sets of cables, and you will “unbalance” the XLR output with the RCA cable loading effects. As recommended in the user manual, only use one set of outputs at a time. No damage will be done; it will just degrade the audio performance.

A possible solution is to use the front panel headphone jack; we can add an option in software to set this output to a “fixed” level if it would help? As your using wireless headphones, I would not worry too much about the quality of the Headphone connector over RCA connectors. The Audio quality degradation from the Headphone Transmitter / Receivers circuit is going to be far worse, and will totally swamp any connector issue.

I’m happy that you’re passing this information onto the Czech forums, thank you – I only wish my Czech was better. Dom & I are talking about attending the spring HiFi show in Prague next year – still only talk at this stage, It would be good to meet up with the likes of both Pavel’s (PMC and Dudek), and everyone else… It’s our home country after all!

I just mentioned to Dominik that we should have really allowed an option to switch-off the Amps via remote trigger when say a headphone jack is inserted.

Sorry, on the DQ and as a running change to the CDQ, the Remote Trigger outputs are a very late addition (requested by PFM users in fact), and they are simply “passive” in that they provided 12V trigger to command the power amps to switch on/off when ever the CDQ /DQ units are powered.

..........
Despite what some other’s would like you to believe (and invest in), technically unless your clock-locking the Transport to DAC, integral CD servo section is the best solution - so the CDQ over DQ if CD is still your main source (like me - am I getting old?).

In a well designed CD/DAC the critical conversion Master clock will be situated next to the DAC, and distributed by a well isolated “Clock Tree” to the CD section. Also the heavy PSU currents and associated Ground return currents of the CD servo sections must be isolated as not to be allowed them to effect or modulate the critical DAC / Clock sections. The CD/CDQ have a multitude of cascade regulator and LC filter, 4 Layer PCB & and Heavy multi layer PCB ground-planes to help achieve this.

Once the Data has been recovered from the disc in a Bit accurate form, and the servo sections cannot modulate the DAC Conversion process (including clock), it does not matter how “Well Built” the CD loader is – this is PURE marketing BS, trying to fool the unaware that for some technical reason a 20Kg loading tray is somehow better for audio quality then a “Plastic wonder”. The only difference will be the health of your bank account – and ones contribution to the success of “Bling” marketing.

If you disassemble any of these “hernia” inducing, bank depleting units, they always use the same OPU "off the shelf" (Optical pick-up block) as any TESCO sourced player. I work in this industry – Pls. do not be fooled. The sole requirement of a CD section is to recover Bit Accurate Data, without modulating the conversion process – This is down to electrical design and mechanical screening, not 20kg loader draws – or belt drive CD turntables.

Absolutely, I would recommend an “all in one” CD, DAC + Preamplifier… it’s the shortest and cleanest “Signal” path!

[PMA]

Nebylo by lepší dát link, než CTL-V a CTRL-C dlouhých pasáží?? Ať si každý vybere. Není nutný předvýběr, kdo nemluví anglicky, stejně mu nepomůže.

[opa]

[Hasňa]

I tak spatne i tak spatne. Neni na svete clovek ten, aby se zavdecil lidem vsem. Je to tezky. Jsou to tu sice romany, ale aspon je to uceleny link na tema New stuff from Audiolab. Aspon nemusi vsichni tady sledovat vyvoj na nejakem cizim foru v zapadlem vlakne na strane 53 toho threadu. Hazim sem zajimave veci, kdo nechce at necte, Casem to tu stejne ochladne, skonci a stane se soucasti mistniho archivu, ktery treba nekdy nekomu pomuze. Anglictina je dnes soucasti zakladniho vzdelani, stejne jako pocitacova gramotnost a ridicak. Kdo neumi a chce tohle tema sledovat, ten holt musi vyuzit sluzeb Google translate. Kdyby se v mladi ucil, tenhle problem by nemel. Samozrejme nemohli mit vsichni za bolsevika osvicene rodice, kteri ho tlacili do cizich jazyku, ale nastesti strejda Google docela dobre funguje. Navit tamto forum je preplnene adoracemi na Naim a jine podobne woodoo hifi sragory. A vyfiltrovani tohohle musi prece ocenit kazdy. Westlake pise docela vtipne, je to takove cteni na dlouhe podzimni vecery. Treba to nekoho zaujme.

[Troton]

Dobre citanie

[britishaudio]

[Hasňa]

A ted kdyby to nekdo mohl prelozit do cestiny. Dobry? Spatny? Nejde urcit?

[Slimak]

...

[mimoklepes]

na stranke audiolabu je na stiahnutie manual k cdq. cast technical description je pomerne vyzivna. je tam dokonca aj servisny manual