hifi.slovanet.sk

[motylek]

[matto]

motylek
ano, tak planujem prvu fazu, kupit Denon a prepojit cez HDMI. Druha faza by bola dorabka modulu Vanity - aby bola zarucena maximalna kvalita zvuku. Uvidim jak to bude hrat, ak budem spokojny, mozno Vanity nebudem riesit...

[matto]

Inac vsetkym vdaka za rady a pekne sviatky prajem, vlastne uz je skoro po sviatkoch...
A kludne este piste pripadne aj dalsie napady, necham sa inspirovat.

[matto]

Tak a mam nove skusenosti. Kupil som Denon 3313ud. Slusna konstrukcia, vyborna rychla, ticha mechanika. Pocuvam prve CD (cez HDMI) a nieco mi tam nesedi. Pocuvam dalej, prehadzujem na starucky Pioneer 989avi a je zas vsetko v poriadku. Krasne vykreslene nastroje v priestore, ludsky hlas je prirodzeny, spravne umiestneny. Zvuk je prijemne prirodzeny. Prepinam zas na Denon. Hudba sa zleje, rozostri a je neprijemne digitalna zrnita, neprirodzena. Nemozem uverit ze moze byt taky rozdiel medzi prehravacmi pripojenymi digitalne do prevodnika. Som neprijemne sklamany. Rozdiel je tak velky ako by som porovnaval 100tis. prehravac s 10tisicovym (analogovo pripojenymi). Spravil som si vyber skladieb, napalil na 2 rovnake CD, pustil oba prehravace a prepinam len vstupy na prevodniku. Rozdiel fakt obrovsky. Pre istotu som aj prehodil disky v prehravacoch a vymenil aj vstupy. Vysledok rovnaky. No ocakaval som ze to bude hrat CD minimalne rovnako + budem mat moznost prehravania SACD - 88,2khz. Ano toto funguje, no je mi to nanic, ked CD z Pioneera hra lepsie ako SACD z Denona. Tak teraz uz viem, ze aj v topmodeloch vyrobcov su pekne odflaknute obvody a suciastky. Uz sa aj bojim dalej riesit transport a vazim si deduska Pioneera.
Este jedna velka vdaka BIS Audiu za moznost vratenia prehravaca po 3 dnoch! Vdaka.

[Krasomil]

Komu neni rady
Mimochodem M51 funguje s Vanity velice dobre:
http://www.audiopraise.com/forum/read.php?6,410

[miero]

Cez HDMI lezie SPDIF a kludne i resamplovany na 48kHz. I za predpokladu, ze by to prehravac neresamploval tak kvalita bude zavisiet na hodinach prehravaca. Mozno to nebola silna stranka toho Denonu... analogovy vystup si asi neskusal, ze?

EDIT: tak divam do manualu a tam pisu ze na HDMI z denonu lezie v PCM mode Linear PCM.

[matto]

No takze ak by som sa rozhodol hladat dalej, pravdepodobne by som dal na radu Krasomila a skusil to OPPO BDP-103 + Vanity 103HD.
Este dotaz, modul Vanity 103HD predava aj Casea, alebo ho treba objednat zo stranky Audiopraise? Ta sa mi zda divna, nemaju ani kontakt ani cennik…
Nenasiel som ani cenu modulu, neviete poradit cennik? Vdaka.

[Odar]

Audiopraise predava http://www.nirvanahifi.cz/audiopraise/ Zavolaj si tam, ci vedia zabezpecit aj tuning CD / DVD / BD prehravaca. Predavaju uz upravene CD prehravace s tuningom od Casea http://www.nirvanahifi.cz/casea-tunning/ To je ale asi jednoduchsie riesit priamo s p. Vranom http://www.casea.eu/modifikace.php

[janik1971]

tak neviem ja som kontakt nasiel na ich stranke
ap@audiopraise.com
http://audiopraise.com/services.php

[Odar]

Tak ono v podstate staci napisat PM Krasomilovi

[motylek]

[miero]

Pre bezneho spotrebitela to urcite problem nebude. Otazka je ci to je lepsie nez bezny SPDIF, alebo nie. A SPDIF mnohym hifistom teda nevonia, z dovodu ze hodiny a audio signal je zluceny do jedneho signalu.

[britishaudio]

[miero]

BNC je SPDIF, ze?

[matto]

britišaudio
už ma serie to posmievanie sa ludom! Nemam riesit HDMI. A preco? Lebo to nezvladol ten Denon? Lebo cesta cez HDMI neexistuje? A co moj starucky Pioneer? Dava absolutne rovnake vysledky cez HDMI aj cez Coaxial. Toto nema cenu riesit, HDMI nema problem preniest SPDIF, ma tam na to minimalne dve zily.

[bogino]

matto: HDMI nie je S/PDIF, ani ked sa prenasa len stereo LPCM.

Implementacia toho ktoreho rozhrania v tom ktorom pristroji moze byt na rozdielnej urovni, rad by som vsak vedel, co opravnuje ku vseobecnemu tvrdeniu, ze HDMI je horsie rozhranie nez S/PDIF.

Davam citacie z wikipedie:

http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=S/PDIF
S/PDIF can carry two channels of uncompressed PCM audio or compressed 5.1/7.1 surround sound (such as DTS audio codec); it cannot support lossless formats (such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio) which require greater bandwidth like that available with HDMI or DisplayPort.
...
The receiver does not control the data rate, so it must avoid bit slip by synchronising its conversion with the source clock. This means that S/PDIF cannot fully decouple the final signal from influence by the analogue characteristics of the source or the interconnect, even though the digital audio data can normally be transmitted without loss. The source clock may carry inherent jitter or wander, and noise or distortion introduced in the data cable may further influence the process of clock recovery.[5][6][7] If the DAC does not have a stable clock reference then noise will be introduced into the resulting analogue signal. However, receivers can implement various strategies which limit this influence.[7][8]
...
S/PDIF is unidirectional, so it lacks flow control and retransmission facilities. This limits its utility in data communications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) is a compact audio/video interface for transferring uncompressed video data and compressed or uncompressed digital audio data from a HDMI-compliant source device ...
...
Each Data Island Period is 32 pixels in size and contains a 32-bit Packet Header, which includes 8 bits of BCH ECC parity data for error correction and describes the contents of the packet.
...
Although no maximum length for an HDMI cable is specified, signal attenuation (dependent on the cable's construction quality and conducting materials) limits usable lengths in practice.[117][118] HDMI 1.3 defines two cable categories: Category 1-certified cables, which have been tested at 74.5 MHz (which would include resolutions such as 720p60 and 1080i60), and Category 2-certified cables, which have been tested at 340 MHz (which would include resolutions such as 1080p60 and 2160p30).[111][119][120] Category 1 HDMI cables are marketed as "Standard" and Category 2 HDMI cables as "High Speed".[1]

Preco by teda HDMI malo byt slabsie rozhranie, ked umoznuje ovela vyssi datovy tok a je kvalitnejsie osetrene prenosovymi protokolmi?

[britishaudio]

namiesto hľadanie citátov je treba vyskúšať, porovnávať a počuť. Z transportu cez HDMI do DAC občas preteká aj zakódovaný signál z už nefungujucej radiovej stanice slobodná europa. Moduly Audiopraise sú pravdepodobne najkvalitnejším riešením čo sú teraz na trhu...

[Odar]

Ale ta slobodna europa sa moze kludne namodulovat aj na S/PDIF, ak sa nebavime o optike. To bude pristroj od pristroja. V zasade tiez nevidim problem prenasat audio cez HDMI - preco nie? Vsak pasmo, ktore dokaze cez HDMI 1.4 preniest je dostatocne. Ostatne uz zalezi od konkretneho riesenia, ako je to urobene.

[matto]

Vcera som pol dna porovnaval HDMI a Coax z mojho Pioneera. Ziadny pocutelny rozdiel som nezaznamenal. Takze urcite to cez HDMI funguje dobre. Akurat ten Denon to fakt nevedel Nevadi mal som moznost ho vratit a mam skusenost. Momentalne nechcem zatial nic kupovat, ale vyskusam si pozicat to OPPO BDP-103. Necham si poradit a casom by som siel asi cestou OPPO + Vanity 103HD.

[Odar]

Ak chces ist touto cestou, idealne by bolo niekde kupit OPPO z druhej ruky a nasledne ho dat vytunit. Ak das spravit modifikaciu na novom pristroji, prides (logicky) o zaruku. Ale to ti je predpokladam jasne.

[matto]

No to by bolo fajn, no OPPO 103 je relativne novy prehravac, tak asi bazarovych kuskov nebude vela. Ale ak ho niekto ma na predaj, ponuknite